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BestFriend · Aug 17, 2018 3:06 PM

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=1&status=any&ageg=&agel=&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&heightg=&heightl=&heighte=&boneg=&bonel=&bonee=&f_basic=none&f_adv=none&f_limit=25&stallion=1&bty=1&lined=lined&name=&name_lm=like&color=&color_lm=like&owner=14374&owner_lm=like&breeder=&breeder_lm=like&sire=2354783&sire_lm=like&dam=&dam_lm=like&barn=&barn_lm=like&pasture=&past_lm=like&tattoo=&tat_lm=like&tat_and=and&club=&bc_lm=like&bc_and=and&e1=&e2=&a1=&a4=&a2=&a3=&f1=&f2=&p1=&p2=&s1=&s2=&s3=&c1=&c2=&c3=&d1=&d2=&g1=&g2=&ch1=&ch2=&z1=&z2=&sa2=&sa1=&mu2=&mu1=&chn2=&chn1=&kit1=&kit2=&kit3=&kit4=&kit5=&kit6=&kit10=&kit11=&kit12=&kit7=&kit8=&kit9=&sp1=&sp2=&sp3=&spM=&pax31=&pax32=&rb1=&rb2=&o1=&o2=&l1=&l2=&ice1=&icei=&ice2=&ice3=&ice4=&ice5=&ice6=&ice7=&ice8=&ice9=&ice10=&ice11=&ice12=&ice13=&ice14=&nexn=&nexx=&nexr=&nexg=&nexb=&nexw=&rainr=&rainwt=&rainpl=&raint=&rainna=&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1

I am wanting to do his line as a combo. I really love the look of that top boy but wondering would you just add splM to him. if I took the frame off the other B boy would there be interest from anyone in him. In order to bid on the second boy you have to own both Ice9 and SplM. just putting feelers out there for now.

Lallyhop · Aug 25, 2018 8:31 PM

I’d go for PapperStorm as your keeper and get rid of the rest. He’s A papered, so he’s gonna be superior to all the others, he got both the 9 and SpM, and he’s not got the frame. No GMT work needed

Maribo · Aug 25, 2018 8:54 PM

Yeah, I would without a doubt keep the A papered one.

AHayesHorses · Aug 26, 2018 12:43 AM

Also, you can't GMT Splash M. Closed genes can't be added to foals that missed it so i would without a doubt go with the A papered boy.

Flying Stunner · Aug 27, 2018 7:08 AM

My opinion; just because he is A papered does not mean that his foals will be better. I have a (rather large) group of A papered studs, and a decent number of them throw foals that fail testing no matter how good a mare they come from. :-?? There will be a great culling of my horses coming.

Dinascar · Aug 27, 2018 9:03 AM

I agree the A papered one got both genes and is superior. But I love the look of Warmstormy - I would keep him as a show pony :)

Lallyhop · Aug 27, 2018 3:40 PM

Flying Stunner - that’s likely because you’ve got a bit of uneven papering happening, or just bad luck of the draw.

An A papered stud is guaranteed to have a higher breeding ability percentage than a B. However, if you match a yellow mare to either of those, you have a better chance of intact rates with the B - because the behind-the-scenes algorithm for BA/SBA looks at the foal’s breeding ability, and compares it to both parents. If it’s significantly worse than either, the foal gets snipped. That doesn’t mean the foal was the worst ever - it means that the foal was worse than at least one parent.

That’s why bootstrapping is tricky. You have to use papering to determine the quality of the foal instead of BA, because when you breed a star stud to a yellow mare and get a red filly, the filly is an improvement over the mare but is still worse than the stud and therefore would be snipped by BA, even though she’s a better breeder than her dam and would make a good advancement to that herd. When you breed her back to a star papered stud in the future, she might throw a blue filly, and that filly could throw a gold!

But, of course, there’s also luck of the draw, and even if you match the stud and dam down to the exact percentage point, there’s still a chance of the foal thrown being worse, which is why most people recommend about ten foals when test breeding. Ten is an adequate sample size, statistically speaking, to get an idea of particular traits (including breeding ability). For mares and AFPT, people drop that number to about three, but for a stud that can afford more breedings per season ten is a good number. This also applies if trying to figure out a hidden gene like snf/kp, etc.

Windigo · Aug 28, 2018 5:14 AM

Just gonna throw this out there to add to Lallys comment, you can totally get gold/star papers from a star/yellow cross. It definitely takes luck and a full pature bonus on your side. I about fell out my chair when I ran inspection on this girl here, I was thinking at best I'd get blue papers.
Then this girls first foal gave me my highest PT to date. Shes one of my favorite mares.

WRG Ready Betty w8

Also, I'd go with the A boy, he's got all the good stuff working for him.

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